Legislature(2011 - 2012)BUTROVICH 205

02/13/2012 10:30 AM Senate RULES


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10:35:08 AM Start
10:36:00 AM HB311
11:02:28 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 311 REPORTS TO APOC TELECONFERENCED
Moved SCS CSHB 311(RLS) Out of Committee
                    HB 311- REPORTS TO APOC                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:36:00 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  ELLIS announced  HB 311 to  be up  for consideration  [CSHB
311(STA) AM was before the committee.]                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MIKE HAWKER,  sponsor of  HB 311,  said this  bill                                                              
clarifies campaign  disclosure report  filing requirements  to the                                                              
Alaska  Public Offices  Commission (APOC).  He stated  that it  is                                                              
important  for  the  state  to   maintain  transparency  and  full                                                              
disclosure to maintain the credibility of the election process.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He said  this is a  bi-partisan effort  and does five  significant                                                              
things: first  it preserves  the statutory  mandate that  campaign                                                              
finance disclosures  be submitted  electronically as  the default.                                                              
It also  provides that the APOC  shall always accept  some version                                                              
of an  electronic spreadsheet  or  data file  uploaded to  them in                                                              
satisfaction of  electronic reporting requirements.  The bill also                                                              
requires  that  any  changes  in  the  format  of  the  prescribed                                                              
submission be done  between election cycles and not  in the middle                                                              
of them. Nothing prohibits voluntary earlier compliance.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The  bill  also  provides  a specific  exception  to  the  general                                                              
premise  that says  all reports  should  be filed  electronically.                                                              
The exception  is for  people who  do not own  a computer  or have                                                              
access to  reliable high speed  Internet at their  residence. This                                                              
provision was  designed out of fairness  and to make  certain that                                                              
no Alaskan,  no matter  where they  reside in  the state  or their                                                              
technical skill  set, will be denied  an equal opportunity  to run                                                              
for  public office.  The last  thing  it does  is allow  continued                                                              
paper  filing in a  transition period  for anyone  who chooses  to                                                              
file on  paper for  the current  election cycle  only. He  said HB
311  is  designed  to  be  retroactive  specifically  to  be  sure                                                              
activities   related   to   the   current   election   cycle   are                                                              
encompassed.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:38:09 AM                                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER stated  it is  the intent  of this  bill to                                                              
allow  anyone  in  the current  campaign  cycle  to  submit  their                                                              
disclosures for the  duration of this campaign cycle  via an Excel                                                              
spreadsheet in the  form and format that was  acceptable when they                                                              
began  their  campaign. It  is  also  the  intent that  anyone  be                                                              
allowed to  file paper  reports through the  end of  this campaign                                                              
cycle.  The last  reporting date  is  February 15,  2013. He  also                                                              
noted a zero fiscal note.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS asked  him to explain  the changes  to the  fines                                                              
for errors or mistakes.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  explained  that  he is  not  qualified  to                                                              
discuss  changes  in  the fines,  but  if  one  fails to  file  in                                                              
compliance with  APOC's regulatory authority (although  they could                                                              
be filing  in explicit  compliance with  state statute),  the fine                                                              
is $500/day.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ELLIS asked him to note the impending deadline.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER answered  for  candidates  involved in  the                                                              
current  campaign   cycle  who   have  been  conducting   campaign                                                              
activities and  raising and spending  funds within the  purview of                                                              
the law,  their first report  is due to APOC  in two days,  on the                                                              
15th  of  this  month.  If  those   candidates  are  going  to  be                                                              
protected,  they have  two days  to pass the  bill. He  emphasized                                                              
that this  bill does not  in any way  change the substance  of the                                                              
disclosures  they must  make to  APOC.  It would  only affect  the                                                              
manner  of  reporting  and  only for  candidates,  not  groups  or                                                              
political action committees.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:41:11 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  MEYER   remarked  that   legislators  cannot   use  state                                                              
computers  to  do  these  reports  or have  staff  assist  in  the                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HAWKER  said  that   was  correct.  No   one  who                                                              
currently has an  elected office and is serving in  Juneau at this                                                              
time may use  the state-owned equipment that is  at their disposal                                                              
to conduct  legislative business.  APOC testified that  they would                                                              
make a  computer available in their  offices between the  hours of                                                              
8:00 a.m. and  5:00 p.m., but a  question was raised in  the House                                                              
State Affairs  Committee  if that was  even ethically  permissible                                                              
considering that is also a state asset.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MEYER said  if you didn't happen to bring  your own laptop                                                              
or maybe don't even  have one, you would perhaps  have no means of                                                              
doing these reports in a timely fashion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER concurred  and said the  folks at  the APOC                                                              
told him to go to the public library.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS  noted that  the executive director  of APOC  was on                                                              
line and available for questions.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:42:58 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  HOFFMAN  said many  individuals  have problems  with  the                                                              
current  the filing  system and  asked if those  problems  will be                                                              
corrected  before next  years and  if  the program  would be  made                                                              
more user friendly.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER replied  that  testimony from  the APOC  in                                                              
the House  State Affairs Committee  indicated that  the commission                                                              
was satisfied with  its program at this time. But  there have been                                                              
conflicting reports  from people who  have been asked  or required                                                              
to use  that program.  He further  directed that  question  to the                                                              
APOC.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:44:04 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  HOFFMAN  asked Mr.  Dauphinais  to  comment on  the  four                                                              
different pages:  the initial page, the summary  page, the expense                                                              
page and  the income page  that have no  drop down box.  It's very                                                              
cumbersome to get  to the back page and there was  no way to print                                                              
one page  at a  time. He  said many individuals  feel the  program                                                              
could  be improved  to make  it more  user friendly  and asked  if                                                              
that would  that take  place between  now and  the requirement  at                                                              
the end of February 2013.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PAUL  DAUPHINAIS,   Executive  Director,  Alaska   Public  Offices                                                              
Commission  (APOC), Department of  Administration (DOA),  answered                                                              
that every  time they get feedback  from someone they try  to deal                                                              
with it  as expeditiously  as possible.  In some  cases they  have                                                              
been able to  deal with issues within  a couple of hours  and they                                                              
intend to continue that.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN asked  if they would have a drop  down box so some                                                              
of  the pages  could  be bypassed  to  get to  the  last one,  the                                                              
income and expense report.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DAUPHINAIS said  he will  speak  to his  programmers and  get                                                              
back to him on that.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MEYER said  he has a volunteer that helps  with the report                                                              
and while  he finally got  it submitted,  he had tried  before and                                                              
the APOC wasn't receiving it.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He also said that  before session he knew the APOC  was working on                                                              
many issues and  one of them was the accumulation  totals. The old                                                              
system would  let you know  if the $500  amount was  exceeded, but                                                              
he didn't see  that feature in the  new system. That is  a concern                                                              
because accepting over $500 could result in a fine.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Also,  the total  amount accepted  from out-of-state  contributors                                                              
used to  get flagged  if it went  over the  $5,000 limit  and that                                                              
feature doesn't work now either.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:47:36 AM                                                                                                                   
MR.  DAUPHINAIS   responded  that  part  of  the   problem  is  as                                                              
information is input  into the program, the name  of a contributor                                                              
needs to be  put in precisely the  same way every time  for it the                                                              
cumulative  feature  to  work  correctly.  If there  is  a  slight                                                              
difference in  the name of the  contributor he will be  treated as                                                              
two different people.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN said  he agrees with the direction  of automating,                                                              
but if  you look  at the  penalties versus  the complexity  of the                                                              
system  and the possible  need for  a more  user friendly  layout,                                                              
"they  don't equal  out" and  that  concerns him.  Under the  last                                                              
example,  if you  put in  Bert Stedman  as a  contributor and  the                                                              
next time  you put in  Bert K. Stedman,  his address is  the same,                                                              
but his name isn't.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
This  software  does  not  coordinate  with  the  bank  statements                                                              
either,  he  said.  The software  reports  when  the  contribution                                                              
arrived and  the bank  reports when  the deposit  went in.  If you                                                              
put 10  contributions in  one deposit, it's  difficult to  go back                                                              
under an  audit unless  you have a  completely separate  system to                                                              
show when  a check hit  the bank and what  deposit it was  in. And                                                              
if you  run two  separate systems  it  is very easy  to negate  an                                                              
entry or make a data error.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:50:06 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR   STEDMAN  suggested   putting  a   work  group   together                                                              
consisting  of two  or  three Senate  and  House  members who  are                                                              
familiar with computers  and automation work as  an advisory group                                                              
to  the people  that  are writing  the software,  because  clearly                                                              
there is a disconnect  between the software that  is being imposed                                                              
and how  legislators actually  function and  stay in compliance  -                                                              
which everybody is trying to do.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HOFFMAN  recommended a deposit  system that allows  for 30                                                              
or so  contributors in  a batch  instead of  having to  total them                                                              
out at  the end of  the report and  figure out where  the problems                                                              
are.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  remarked  that   they  are  zeroing  in  on  the                                                              
legislative response,  but this  has implications far  beyond them                                                              
to city council  members, school board members and  people who are                                                              
appointed to  boards and commissions.  His other concern  was that                                                              
being faced  with the  possibility of  a $500  fine every  day for                                                              
any mistakes you  make discourages people from  running for public                                                              
office. He  wanted it  clarified who this  applies to  overall and                                                              
to know what changes have occurred in the penalties.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:53:02 AM                                                                                                                   
MR. DAUPHINAIS  replied that  this bill  applies to statewide  and                                                              
municipal candidates  only. People  being appointed to  boards and                                                              
commissions need  a public official financial disclosure  and that                                                              
is not  covered by  this bill.  Regarding fines,  AS 15.13.390  on                                                              
civil  penalties has  not changed.  He said he  didn't think  this                                                              
would discourage  people, because  the reporting requirements  and                                                              
deadlines hadn't changed. The fines had not changed either.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
In fact, he  said the latest amendment  to the bill opens  up many                                                              
of  the waivers  or  exemptions  that  were granted  to  municipal                                                              
candidates  in municipalities  with populations  under 15,000  for                                                              
people  who don't  own a  computer  or potentially  choose not  to                                                              
have Internet in their home.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  asked if  he was  saying this  does not  apply to                                                              
municipal candidates who receive or spend funds for campaigns.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DAUPHINAIS   replied  no,   this  does  apply   to  municipal                                                              
candidates,  the  difference  being  in  terms  of  reporting.  He                                                              
explained  that people in  municipalities  of under 15,000  people                                                              
have  always   been  able   to  report   via  paper  rather   than                                                              
electronically,  although if  they chose  to do so  electronically                                                              
he would be happy.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS asked him to cover the penalties.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DAUPHINAIS  replied  that  penalties  are  covered  under  AS                                                              
15.13.390. For  those who  fail to register  [indisc.] or  fail to                                                              
file a  properly completed  and certified  report within  the time                                                              
required, that  individual is  subject to a  civil penalty  of not                                                              
more than  $50/day for  each day of  delinquency and  it continues                                                              
as determined  by the  commission subject to  the right  of appeal                                                              
in  Superior  Court.  A  person  who  fails  to  file  a  properly                                                              
completed and certified  report - for 7 day and 24  hour reports -                                                              
within  the time  required is  subject to  a penalty  of not  more                                                              
than $500/day  for each day of  delinquency and that  continues as                                                              
determined  by  the  commission  subject  to right  of  appeal  in                                                              
Superior Court.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
A  person who  violates  a provision  of  this  chapter, except  a                                                              
provision  requiring registration  or  filing of  a report  within                                                              
the time  required as  otherwise specified is  subject to  a civil                                                              
penalty  of not  more  than $50/day  for  each  day the  violation                                                              
continues as  determined by  the commission  subject to  the right                                                              
of appeal in Superior Court.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:56:44 AM                                                                                                                   
CHAIR  ELLIS  found  no further  comments  or  questions  for  the                                                              
sponsor  and  thanked  him.  He   said  the  Rules  Committee  had                                                              
prepared a  committee substitute to  address some of  the concerns                                                              
expressed by Senate leadership.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS moved  to adopt  SCS CSHB  311(RLS), \X  [version                                                              
27-LS1233\X].                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ELLIS  objected for committee  discussion and  asked Senator                                                              
Stevens to review the proposed changes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  explained that the  CS replaces section  4, which                                                              
allows  candidates that  are  currently in  office  to file  their                                                              
APOC reports  in the  same manner  in which  they were  allowed to                                                              
when they originally filed for office.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He commented  that it  has been very  difficult dealing  with APOC                                                              
not just for himself,  but also for several other  members, and he                                                              
wanted to  pass some of  the difficulties  on. He said,  "APOC has                                                              
just simply  not been very forthcoming  about helping us  adapt to                                                              
this new  system." For  example, he attended  a workshop  a couple                                                              
of weeks  ago and expressed  a concern  that legislators  had said                                                              
to him  that they had  just learned  about the online  requirement                                                              
and  had  arrived  in  Juneau  without  their  computers  (Senator                                                              
Meyer's issue).  So should they be  sent back home so  they can go                                                              
to their  home and file this  properly or should  another solution                                                              
be  found?  One of  the  solutions  suggested  was  to go  to  the                                                              
library with  all of  their checks, deposits  and expenses  and do                                                              
them in  public somewhere.  But that to  him didn't seem  the best                                                              
way to handle it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
So,  he  asked  the  young APOC  attorney  who  led  the  workshop                                                              
discussion  why legislators  couldn't use  the computers  in their                                                              
office (there are  rules against that, but it's the  one time they                                                              
are down  here without  their computers).  She  said, "I will  get                                                              
back to you  on that." But she  never got back to him;  in fact he                                                              
hasn't heard any response.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEVENS  said a  second thing  he had  a problem  with was                                                              
getting  a blank  form so he  could do  a draft.  He called  APOC,                                                              
could not  talk to Mr.  Dauphinais, but  talked to his  deputy who                                                              
said they  hadn't thought about  people needing a draft  and asked                                                              
him to  check back  next week  to see  if was available.  Finally,                                                              
Senator Stevens said  he found a kindly secretary  at APOC who did                                                              
send a  blank form  to him  - the idea  being that  you do  need a                                                              
draft to make sure it is done properly.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
11:00:26 AM                                                                                                                   
He repeated  his concern  that this could  have a daunting  impact                                                              
on legislators.  He said is  on his 12th  year in the  legislature                                                              
and has always  mailed these things  in and has always  typed them                                                              
out  so  they  are  easily  readable   and  easily  scan-able  and                                                              
available the  next day to  the public.  It concerned him  that he                                                              
would have to go online and do a report.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEVENS  quipped  that  he considered  this  the  "Geezer                                                              
Amendment" and  that people shouldn't  have to hire  professionals                                                              
to do this for  them as some do. He concluded  that he had several                                                              
concerns: the  fact that  the attorneys said  they would  get back                                                              
to him  and didn't,  the fact  that he  asked for  the forms  they                                                              
didn't have and as  far as he knows they still  don't have and the                                                              
fact  that   this  would  have   an  impact  on  people   who  are                                                              
questioning whether they should continue running when they are                                                                  
facing a fine of such magnitude.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ELLIS removed to his objection finding no further                                                                         
objections said SCS CSHB 311(RLS) was adopted.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ELLIS found no further comments and asked for a motion.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:02:01 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR STEVENS moved to report SCS CSHB 311 (RLS), version \X,                                                                 
from committee with individual recommendations and the attached                                                                 
fiscal note(s). There were no objections and it was so ordered.                                                                 

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